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Meanwhile, a dead pigeon discovered in western Georgia on Thursday caused panic among local residents, according to local television.
Quote:Reports said the bird was found near the central market in the town of Zugdidi, about 300 kilometers (190 miles) west of the capital, Tbilisi.Witnesses said the pigeon was sitting on an electricity transmission line and then suddenly plummeted to the ground. “It must have been ill with bird flu,” people who gathered around the dead bird are reported to have said.
Local veterinaries examined the pigeon, and said it had not been infected with bird flu, a television channel, Imedi, said.
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060112/42977375.html– another report suggests it had been electrocuted, which seems plausible given the habitat description.
from Richard Thomas of Birdlife:
Quote:A friend who reads Chinese has been googling around and came across the following interesting article about the dangers of fish farming and influenza – nothing new in that, but it’s the first time I’ve seen it
suggested the fish can catch the disease too.Taken from a Nanjing website, 5 February 2004. A retired fish farming
researcher, Chen Chuxing is quoted saying feeding chicken manure to fish
has become standard practice nationwide and is practiced (even) in some
“fairly advanced” fish farms around Nanjing. Many farmers “take shortcuts” and don’t even ferment the manure or put it in lime pits
before feeding it to fish; this is “extremely dangerous.”Fish are susceptible to flu because their digestive system is very primitive and give then bird flu “at second hand,”. Silver carp (huzilian) and other carnivorous fish are fed on chicken guts and feet which “extremely probably” infect the fish.
The best way of avoiding bird flu apart from vaccinating chickens is to
ban feeding fish on chicken manure, and at the very least it must be
inspected and sterilised. If methods do not change there will be a
catastrophic epidemic.http://www.njdj.gov.cn/lhdj/lw/wz2.jsp?article_id=46208
The article is also available on many other sites.
The same message is repeated in a brief story dated Jan 5, 2006, quoting
an unnamed “world famous poultry monitoring organisation.”Also on this theme: it’s extremely, extremely interesting that following
the publicity by BirdLife on the fish farming-bird flu link (and a BBC
interview involving BirdLife and FAO), the FAO website advice on the
practice of feeding chicken manure to fish now reads:“Given that poultry manure/poultry litter containing droppings, feathers
and waste feed is a potentially high-risk material, FAO recommends that
the feeding of poultry manure/poultry litter should be banned in
countries affected by or at risk from avian influenza, even if correctly
composted, ensiled or dried with heat treatment.”http://www.fao.org/ag/againfo/subjects/en/health/diseases-cards/avian_issues.html
“EVEN IF CORRECTLY COMPOSTED”. How very, very interesting…
I emailed Les Sims’ post (above) and my response to Richard Thomas, communications officer of Birdlife International.
He emailed back, with a few additional comments on Dr Sims’ post [I’ve added LS, RT to hopefully make clear]:Quote:Thanks for this: like your reply, some comments of my own in his
message.LS: Poultry manure from infected farms does pose a potential
risk but the speculation that is currently occurring on this is no
different to the sort of speculation on the role of wild birds that
ornithologists have criticised.RT: I disagree – there is some evidence to support these allegations, and
official recognition by FAO, WHO and OIE that these are “high risk
production practices”. We think that is worthy of further investigation
at the very least. It shouldn’t be our job to point this possibility
out: FAO should be looking into it, but don’t appear to be, at least
publicly.LS: Molecular studies on the Mongolian wild bird outbreak
reveal that the viruses, while still closely related to existing strains differ
somewhat from other circulating Eurasian H5N1 viruses, and this
outbreak cannot be explained by the use of poultry manure.RT: As you [ie Martin] rightly point out – Guan Yi has identified around 250 varieties of H5N1, so I don’t understand his argument here. According to our Croatian official on Aiwatch, the Croatian strain is different to the
Romanian and Turkish one.RT: Agreed, it’s very difficult to pin the Mongolian outbreak on poultry
manure, but there’s several explanations other than wild birds.LS: These Mongolian cases remain the best available evidence
for spread by wild birds and it would seem remarkable if these were to be
the only such incidents.LS: All possible routes of transmission should be explored but
this should be done in a manner that retains balance and objectivity.RT: Agreed – not just focusing on wild birds. For whatever reason, FAO seem to have lost the plot, and need bringing back to it. That’s what we set out to do.
UN vet dismisses fish farming as bird flu risk is Reuters story.
Despite the headline, chief vet Dr Joseph Domenech (yes, the key blamer of birds in FAO – or at least the key public face of blame lately) does not dismiss the risk:
Quote:The FAO, which is monitoring the global spread of bird flu, supports the practice whereby feces from farm animals are used to boost fish production.The excrement is used to boost nutrients in water for the organisms the fish feed on.
Domenech told Reuters there was a theoretical risk of fish farms becoming a source of infection if excrement from infected poultry were poured into the ponds.
It could create “an infection outbreak in the environment, in the water, which can be the source of contamination of other birds which come to drink there.”
He added, however, that as long as the correct surveillance was in place, infection should not happen, or could be dealt with quickly if it did.
– but where is such correct surveillance in place? Almost nowhere I should think; and were fish farmers in Russia, eastern Europe, even Qinghai, lately on lookout for H5N1? No, I’d say.
Even in poultry farms in regions with H5N1, surveillance can be poor or terrible – witness several human cases, only after which has H5N1 been found in local poultry. Then, get cover-ups by officials.Quote:“To ban these systems of raising livestock which are extremely efficient and irreplaceable to feed the populations in those countries, would be like banning the raising of ducks because ducks are considered one of the main sources.”and here’s the key. Not science, but FAO mission to promote food security (no matter the potential risks of disease spread – potential heightened inflienza risk from dodgy fish farming practices warned of back in 1988, yet FAO promoted them, evidently viewing rewards as outweighing risks. Now, seems unwilling to even look for potential problems; just saying can’t be there as issue’s too important.
Quote:“Today it’s impossible to say that wild birds are not playing a role,” said Domenech. “We hope in three to four months, at the end of this migration period, we will see better.”Nonsense! It’s straightforward and valid to say, right now, birds are not major vectors; they can’t sustain high path avian flus. There is plenty of data; and there’s natural selection.
Post edited by: martin, at: 2006/01/21 02:35
An email on this issue:
Quote:I have been trying to raise interest in this issue with the people at ProMED since last May, after I found out that FAO had funded fishfarming projects at Qinghai Lake some years ago and that there were probably still fish farming operations there that could have been involved in the outbreak.Additional information of possible interest on this issue:
(1) Excessive use of poultry manure to fertilize lakes and reserviors has been cited as the cause of mass die-offs of farmed carp in China involving hundreds of thousands of fish [apparently from oxygen starvation].(2) raw chicken entrails and unprocessed offal are used in Thailand as fishfeed in snakehead farming (“With the expansion of the poultry processing industry, chicken entrails are also becoming increasingly available …. Some farmers use this new feed resource exclusively for feeding snakehead in ponds”
Consultancy Report for the Initiation of a Programme for Fish Feed Development in the Regional Lead Centre in Thailand ).[latter is on FAO website]
So, poultry entrails and offal fed to fish…
And if a farmer suffers sudden die off among number of birds – might it be tempting to not tell authorities (get trouble, maybe all birds slaughtered and may wonder if will be compensation), instead get a little money selling for fish feed?Dear Les:
Well, I think this is very different.
Firstly, as wild birds shown to not be major vectors: ample evidence; plus they can’t sustain high path avian influenza because of natural selection.Yes, may be rare incidences of wild birds spreading some distance, but even in Mongolia it’s bizarre (species involved not moving at the time); I saw a note that Mongolian hunters use live decoy ducks from China; then, at least Erkhel is a tourist destination.
Much is widely unknown re h5n1 strains in China, I believe; read that Guan Yi’s team has identified 250 strains from over 100,000 samples; and he’s lately said migratory birds not responsible for spread.So, H5N1 being sustained and moved by other means. And FAO at high levels showing v little interest of late in finding what those might be. (For the recent outbreaks.) I’ll post a little re this below.
Birdlife not saying chicken manure/fishponds certainly involved. But evidence looking well worth closer look. Inc as various recent wild bird outbreaks – Qinghai, at least some sites Russia, also Danube Delta, Croatia – on or near fishponds.
There’s chicken offal feeding to fish to consider, too.
We know H5N1 can survive for long periods in water. Even back in 1988, warnings sounded that may be links between fish farming and influenza.
So, where is the FAO report linking fish farming and recent H5N1 spread? (FAO produced a report on birds and the h5n1 spread – slanting blame on birds, even tho conclusions included notion that just possibly the sick/dying birds with h5n1 couldn’t carry it long distances.)Major point is that lately, FAO at higher level has lost balance and objectivity. Has not explored all possible routes of transmission – not publicly, anyway.
Regards,
MartinDear Martin,
Poultry manure from infected farms does pose a potential risk but the speculation that is currently occurring on this is no different to the sort of speculation on the role of wild birds that ornithologists have criticised.
Molecular studies on the Mongolian wild bird outbreak reveal that the viruses, while still closely related to existing strains differ somewhat from other circulating Eurasian H5N1 viruses, and this outbreak cannot be explained by the use of poultry manure.
These Mongolian cases remain the best available evidence for spread by wild birds and it would seem remarkable if these were to be the only such incidents.
All possible routes of transmission should be explored but this should be done in a manner that retains balance and objectivity.
Regards,
Les
Article from New Zealand Herald – 28/12/05
Bird flu could be linked to fish farming
28.12.05 1.00pm
By Michael McCarthyBird flu may be spread by using chicken dung as feed in fish farms, a practice now routine in Asia, the world’s leading bird conservation organisation believes.
Fertilising fish ponds with poultry faeces, which can dramatically improve fish growth, may in fact set up major new reservoirs of avian influenza infection if the chickens providing the manure are infected themselves, according to BirdLife International, the Cambridge-based umbrella body for bird protection groups in more than 100 countries.
The suggestion, which has echoes of the BSE problem in Britain, in which cattle were infected by organic feed, is an explosive one, on an international scale.
It puts a serious question mark over a technique firmly backed by the UN’s Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) as a primary means of providing protein for mushrooming populations in the developing countries – suggesting that millions of people, instead of being helped by it, might ultimately die because of it, in a global pandemic.
Known as integrated livestock-fish farming, the technique involves transferring the wastes from raising pigs, ducks or chickens directly to fish farms, with chicken or duck sheds sometimes sited directly over the fish ponds themselves.
At the right dosage, the nutrients in the manure give an enormous boost to the growth of plankton in the ponds, which are the main food of fish such as carp and tilapia.
This is taking place on an enormous scale. According to an FAO report from two years ago, it is now the main basis for aquaculture in China and neighbouring countries.
“Livestock wastes purposely used in ponds, or draining into them, support the production of most cultured fish in Asia,” the report said.
“Much of the vast increase in China’s recent inland aquaculture production is linked to organic fertilisation, provided by the equally dramatic growth of poultry and pig production.”
BirdLife International is now calling for an investigation into the possibility that these thousands of manure-fed ponds across Asia may be the means by which the new, potentially deadly strain of avian influenza, H5N1, is being spread.
BirdLife points out that outbreaks of H5N1 have occurred this year at locations in China, Romania and Croatia where there are fish farms.
The Chinese outbreak, which involved a big die-off of 6000 wild birds, mainly bar-headed geese, took place in May this year at Qinghai Lake, a location where the FAO helped establish an integrated livestock-fish farm in the early 1990s, BirdLife said.
“This outbreak helped lead to the widespread media speculation about wild birds spreading H5N1,” said BirdLife’s Richard Thomas.
“We pointed out that bar-headed geese migrate from India, where H5N1 has never occurred, and migrate early, so they must have contracted the disease locally, at Qinghai.”
BirdLife does not think that wild birds are vectors – carriers – of H5N1, and believes that the widespread speculation during the autumn that migratory birds would spread bird flu from Asia far and wide into Europe was entirely misplaced.
“Millions of birds have now migrated, and it hasn’t happened,” said BirdLife’s Director and Chief Executive, Dr Michael Rands.
“Wild birds are victims, not vectors, of avian influenza. We believe that when wild birds get it, they’re very susceptible, and die before they can move very far. Some fall over straight away.”
Although no mention was been made of the possible links between manure-fed ponds and influenza in the recent alarm over bird flu, it has been raised before, and the FAO, although actively promoting the technique, is well aware of the threat.
A FAO report from 2003, “Integrated Livestock-Fish Farming Systems,” noted: “Recently, livestock and fish have been implicated in the irregular occurrence of influenza pandemics; the global impacts on public health of promoting livestock and fish integration are huge if these claims are substantiated.”
In fact, the FAO has been aware that some scientists think there is a risk for very much longer.
The references to the 2003 report include one to a paper published in Nature, the international scientific journal, as long ago as 1988.
This paper, by Christoph Scholtissek from the University of Giessen in Germany and Ernest Naylor from the University of Bangor in North Wales was headed “Fish Farming and Influenza Pandemics”, said that bringing together fish farms with farm livestock “may well be the creation of a considerable human health hazard.”
However, the FAO has continued to promote integrated livestock-fish farming actively throughout the ensuing period.
Dr Rands said: “There appears to be some circumstantial evidence that one of the ways in which the disease might be spreading is through the use of chicken faeces for feeding fish.
“We are not aware that people have confirmed that that is a likely cause – but people have suggested it. If it’s a possibility, and if it presents a serious human health risk, it certainly ought to be researched, and if it has been researched, the research should be out there for us all to see.”
He went on: “Wild birds are often being blamed for the spread of avian influenza, but as far as we can tell there is no clear evidence, in fact no evidence.
“The science that there is suggests that wild birds are not to blame for the spread. If you look at migration routes and spread of the disease, the correlation is really quite poor. Millions of birds migrated this autumn, and if they really were the means of spreading bird flu, it should be all over the place in Africa and southern Asia – and it’s not happened.”
– INDEPENDENT
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10361729
Link to Independent:
http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article335356.ecePost edited by: martin, at: 2006/01/21 02:26
Swans again.
Why so many swans affected in eastern Europe and Russia recently?I’ve seen nothing more re this outbreak; as yet, haven’t seen good ideas re why swans becoming infected.
MartinThanks, yes, I’ve seen this [full paper], and a related paper (on whether ducks are trojan horses)
An important straw for some to clutch at in blaming wild birds. Key part of blame-the-wild-birds, no matter the evidence.Notions H5N1 is in wild birds simply aren’t borne out by facts. (One thing – even if mild in ducks, it would kill other birds. Otherwise, arguing for H5N1 becoming benign in wild ibrds.)
Guan Yi, among experts I quote in another thread, is among authors of paper. He’s independent minded bloke, though.
As I noted in a post above, inc re such experiments with/results from captive birds (see also thread here re Trojan ducks):
For H5N1 to become non virulent in wild birds, need considerable evolution; not seeing this in wild (and there is considerable testing; also lack of wild bird deaths from H5N1 pretty near everywhere).
Lower path H5N1 in domestic/experimental ducks in low titres cloaca; ducks don’t French kiss and I’ve never seen wild ducks sneeze, so spreading it tough. Swans in Croatia also low titres cloaca; other birds on ponds with them not infected [source of the swans infection a mystery: why swans here, Volga, predominating among the – rather few – wild birds affected in Romania?]The real blame is elsewhere; not at all hard for poultry industry to move bird flus around – been proven before.
Big question, then – why so much focus on wild birds, when even FAO noting that H5N1 not found in healthy wild birds? (Are minor almost exceptions, mentioned on this forum.)
Why?
Why not put at least an equivalent spotlight on farming? (see thread here)These are sad times for “science”.
Martin
Post edited by: martin, at: 2005/12/23 00:17
That was brave of the Agonist! Here's hoping it remains relatively free of Nimanism. Had quick look at the Agonist, and found this article, which would fit right in with Chicken Little flu posts quoted above, but was written as humour (back in Feb): Nation's Leading Alarmists Excited About Bird Flu
I’m late to see this (via the Agonist forum), but still fun I think, and as relevant as back in Feb:
Nation’s Leading Alarmists Excited About Bird Flu
Hmmm… Dr Preston Douglas couldn’t be related to one Henry Niman, could he?
I saw something re this “Shock and Awe” (to be in a patent application it seems). Seem to remember Niman promising a different arrival of Shock and Awe a while back, with nothing much happening.
Given date, are we to expect the Shock and Awe to arrive in a big sack carried by a chap in a red suit with a big white beard?Though Planet Niman is well into the human H5N1 pandemic that began by 6 April 2005 , I doubt most of us will be shocked or awed on or after 24 Dec.
But, can forecast Niman will produce loads more Bluff and Bluster.more fun n frivolity at:
Bush Orders Mass Bald Eagle Slaughter To Stop Spread Of Bird Flu
while those fruitcakes who have suggested culling wild birds to stop bird flu, Chairman Mao’s experiment should give pause for thought:
Quote:[whatt happened in] the 1950s, when Mao Zedong ordered the killing of what he called the country’s biggest four evils – rats, flies, mosquitoes and sparrows?The late Chinese leader’s “four pests” campaign proved the Communist Party’s power to mobilise China’s millions of peasants but the results were often unfortunate.
Mao Zedong’s mass extermination campaign went horribly wrong
The anti-sparrow campaign, for instance, was extremely effective but had tragic results.Villagers were told to rush out to the fields, banging on pots and pans and screaming at the tops of their voices.
The sparrows and won’t have been just sparrows; many birds involved took to the air, and as the pandemonium continued, stayed there, too terrified to land, until they dropped dead from exhaustion.
The only trouble was that sparrows are a vital link in the food chain and are particularly fond of locusts. With no sparrows left to eat them, there was a plague of locusts, the crops were ruined and millions of people died in the ensuing famine. [famine not solely from the pests increasing in this way, but played a role]
China follows Mao with mass cull – during SARS
Post edited by: martin, at: 2005/12/20 02:59
Hi Gänseerpel:
“Mode of transmission: wild birds” seems typical; yet when try looking into reasons for this, eividence can seem weak, or non-existent (seen wild birds blamed for, say, outbreak in poultry in Xinjiang – and no wild birds in report to OIE).
Guan Yi perhaps has best handle on data; see comments by experts thread, where he says wild birds not responsible for spread.
Les Sims comments to this forum (thread on farming) also of interest: he too has massive experience with H5N1, inc working for FAO.Indeed, you would figure dead wild birds should be all over Romania esp Danube Delta; trail of bodies from Russia (yet not sure if birds here were from affected parts of Russia; Croatia’s swans, say, from Europe – at least one being well during stopover in Hungary).
Have you also seen my piece on dead ducks not flying, via links at left (bird flu n wild birds) – on 2003/04 outbreaks in Asia, and wild birds victims, not vectors.
H5N1 isn’t novelty here in Asia (I’m in Hong Kong). Yet, this autumn/winter, no reports in wild waterbirds in Asia ex-Russia – which is surely hugely significant.
In Hong Kong, had occasional wild birds die, found to have H5N1 – first in 2002, but no spread, no excess deaths, no H5N1 found in healthy wild bird despite testing (over 16,000 birds in past two years). Potent evidence I think that H5N1 is not and cannot become established in wild birds.Indeed frustrating people like Joseph Domenech of FAO can blame wild birds so readily with such scant evidence.
H5N1 pathogenicity can be sustained only in poultry, I believe; maybe poor vaccines are helping with this. (Thread on evolutionary biology of relevance here. Helps explain why true wild birds flus are mild.)
[Tho I’m less clued up than you re configurations.]Glad you find this thread of use.
Martin
Ah, too bad you hadn’t seen the Henry Niman – Prophet of Doom thread. So much of what Niman writes is wrong that best ignored if possible. So much blame from him for wild birds spreading H5N1 with no real evidence (and main evidence to contrary); it’s not as tho Niman’s a polite fellow; way too much clutter of flu threads elsewhere with Nimanism. Bah! Two findings of LPAI H5N1 strains in wild birds that I know of (another in mallard, US, 1986; tho seems to me there’s more evidence of such strains since HPAI H5N1 has developed in poultry before). Both ducks, not "wild birds" in general. For H5N1 to become non virulent in wild birds, need considerable evolution; not seeing this in wild (and there is considerable testing; also lack of wild bird deaths from H5N1 pretty near everywhere). Lower path H5N1 in domestic/experimental ducks in low titres cloaca; ducks don’t French kiss and I’ve never seen wild ducks sneeze, so spreading it tough. Swans in Croatia also low titres cloaca; other birds on ponds with them not infected [source of the swans infection a mystery: why swans here, Volga, predominating among the – rather few – wild birds affected in Romania?] With H5N1 of Guangdong goose 96 lineage in poultry so virulent, I’ll say it is not going to happen. Once into wild, natural selection stops it pretty near dead in its tracks. (Those tree sparrows odd; but many questions raised, inc re poultry in vicinity.) [May be shift if get much longer time with H5N1, and perhaps find things happen as China carries out massive poultry vaccinations. But I doubt it.]
Oh dear oh dear, more Nonsense from Niman; though yes, not his worst by a long stretch: see Henry Niman – prophet of doom for the Internet thread on this forum for some examples (This forum isn’t the place for purported sense by Niman, not until appears in peer-reviewed journal and/or Niman actually does some research instead of just sitting at computer posting so much codswallop on Internet. Though it’s bizarre he still bothers with wild birds, since on Planet Niman the human H5N1 pandemic began by 6 April 2005; soon after which, concerns re Ebola and H5N1 mixing. Not to mention bioterrorists using pigs to transport a flu to kill America’s mice. Oh, I said not to mention that; sorry). Good grief, look at this post by N. Fragments of information, and he paints a picture (what’s this about "an additional northern migratory pathway stretching from Sweden to Japan." Can he actually believe this, or does Niman laugh as he posts his drivel, thinking of the people who’ll be taken in by it?) So, H5N1 is becoming harmless to wild birds is it? Aargh, gotta stop shortly; Nimanism makes me feel bilious just reading it (haven’t added to prophet of doom thread lately, as been avoiding Nimanism mostly of late; but if anyone has good new additions, would be welcome). See also thread Experts on wild birds not major h5n1 carriers
HI David: Glad the photos (and video) help some; but I haven’t seen any other funny stuff like this since. Article here may interest you, if not seen already:
Afraid of the Bird Flu? The Worse Virus Is Fear: A pandemic that isn’t even here is driving my patients crazy
Related: Experts dismiss scare over bird flu Martin
Just found a couple more references inc fish ponds and chicken manure; both on FAO site.
Report on Asia-Pacific Regional Research and Training Centre for Integrated Fish Farming, in China, includes:
“Preliminary results show that fresh chicken manure is better than fremented chicken manure for fish production Purposes.”
http://www.fao.org/docrep/field/003/AC491E/AC491E19.htmAlso research from Hungary, including use of chicken manure in fishponds:
http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/004/AC155E/AC155E11.htmInteresting that it was (mute?) swans impacted in Volga, as Croatia, and Romania (tho a few wild ducks there too?)
Do they have an affinity for fishponds? Might the outbreaks, beginning around mid-Oct I think, have signalled arrival of H5N1 in poultry – or at least in chicken manure – in eastern Europe?Seems that, as in Croatia, the Volga swans didn’t transmit the virus to other wild birds [tho also confusing in this articiel re whether poisoning is major cause of recent deaths]:
No avian flu found in dead birds in Russia’s Kalmykia
http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=2693911&PageNum=0
ROSTOV ON DON, December 5 (Itar-Tass) — No avian flu was found in the wild birds that died in Kalmykia, a tiny republic on the Caspian, according to preliminary findings reported by the southern regional centre of the Emergencies Ministry on Monday.
…
Thick fog prevents specialists from continuing the search for the dead fowl. But it will resume immediately as soon as the weather improves. The examination of the dead birds’ blood and tissue samples continues in order to determine the exact cause of their death.Thirty-three dead swans were found on the Caspian coast in Kalmykia’s Lagansky district on November 27. Several days later, another 117 dead swans were found. All of them were cremated. No dead or sick species have been registered among domestic fowl.
Authorities in the neighbouring Astrakhan region, where mass swan deaths were reported in the Volga delta, are creating an electronic map of problem areas. A total of 493 dead birds (mainly swans) have been found in the region since November 17. Analyses confirmed avian flu.
No new deaths among wild fowls have been registered in the region over the past few days, and no sick birds have been reported among domestic poultry.
According to the regional branch of the Emergencies Ministry, “A colossal number of birds are amassing in the Volga delta, including more than 15,000 migrant grey swans. A team of specialists has been sent to the place of the latest swan deaths. No deaths among wild birds and domestic fowl from avian flu have been registered in the Volga delta. And no people have got sick.”
Despite the confirmed avian flu diagnosis, specialists do not rule out that poisoning might have been the cause of the death. “Mass deaths of birds have occurred in the country many times, and there have been numerous natural calamities and industrial accidents, fish kills or waste water leakages,” the head of the local branch of the Federal Service for Supervision of Consumer Rights and Welfare (Rospotrebnadzor), Anatoly Kovtunov said, adding at the same time, “We know that the dead birds were infected with avian flu”.
About three weeks ago rescuers reported a 50-kilometre spill of unidentified nature, with double the maximum permissible level of cadmium, was moving towards the region. Water intakes were stopped in Astrakhan at that time.
Meanwhile, authorities have imposed quarantine in the section of the Volga delta where the mass death of swans occurred, as well as within a 30-kilometre radius from it.
Villages in the Volga delta are under quarantine, and domestic birds stay indoors. Access to regional poultry farms is now limited for safety reasons. Local farmers get instructions as to what to do in case new fowl deaths or signs of infection are registered. Police check vehicles to prevent unsanctioned poultry exports to other regions of the country.
The Astrakhan veterinarian service said swan deaths had started near the Astrakhan Nature Park a week before. The Astrakhan regional chief veterinarian said that plenty of birds had amassed in the Volga delta. “Only swans born in spring have died. They might have been weakened by the long voyage,” he said. The situation is being controlled, and blood samples of waterfowl are being taken.
further emails (combined here):
"Qinghai Lake: Is it really all dried up?" Herdspeople who weren’t uprooted were advised to switch from open grazing to pen-rearing their livestock. In a bid to replenish fish resources, local governments prohibited fishing in the lake in the 1980s. In 1997, a fish farm was started and 15 million artificially bred Gymnocypris przewalskii fries have been released to the lake since then.
"Qinghai Lake" etc. Qhnews.com seems to have been established very recently (2004).
"Qinghai Lake splits into several lakes" This picture reminds me of Aral Sea… However, 85 percent of the rivers around the lake have dried up now, including the Buh River, the lake’s largest tributary. More recent news:
the inspection instructs the high pathogenic birds and beasts flu to guard against controls seals the lake with Lake Qinghai nurtures the fish work, (original text looks like to read "restrict fish farming") The middle part of the article deals with fish farming. Must educate guides masses to change domesticated fowl raising way,… Must further do well poultry’s immunity work, achieves […] Increases to the poultry transaction market, the poultry slaughters the spot, the birds and beasts class food processing factory
Loads more stupidity on show in a 21 October 2005 article in Live Science –
Deadly Flu Will Reach U.S., Says Bird Migration Expert
Can’t say how much of this is attributable to woeful writing, and how much to the babblings of the supposed “expert”. Ah well, here goes:Quote:An expert in bird migration patterns said today it is only a matter of time before the avian flu virus reaches the United States and the rest of North America.No corner of the planet is immune, he said.
“By knowing the migratory patterns of birds and areas where species overlap while traveling between their breeding sites and winter grounds, one can predict precisely where problems will occur,” said Thomas Van’t Hof, an ornithologist at Wright State University in Ohio.
[This is untrue, as shown by outbreaks in HK 2002, east Asia 2003/2004, and north Asia/Europe this year.]…
“The disease will probably end up in Africa this year,” Van’t Hof told LiveScience. “This is very likely to happen.”
[That was wrong. Hasn’t even ended up in migratory birds in other parts of Asia this autumn. So much for his notion that can “precisely” predict where wild birds will carry H5N1.]It is harder to say when it will hop the Atlantic, he said, but that could happen next year, based on known migration patterns.
[and, err, why not suggest it will cross the Pacific? – there are people on lookout in Alaska, but no virus detected there]The flying flu
Birds migrating south from China likely made contact with species in Bangladesh and Burma that were migrating west through southern India to Turkey, Van’t Hof explains. This is how the virus reached Russia and Eastern Europe.
[What a pile of poop regarding migration routes! Aaargh – is this the standard of “expert” the US has these days? No wonder so many people in US believe in intelligent design but not global warming.]Birds from Europe are now flying south through Turkey. Soon, Africa will be exposed.
[More half-baked nonsense!]Next spring, when infected birds migrate to the Arctic to nest, they will mix with birds from North America, Van’t Hof explained.
The virus is carried by waterfowl, which migrate long distances, increasingly the likelihood it will spread around the globe. How quickly it reaches North America will depend on how many infected birds mix with other fowl in nesting areas, and how close the nests are to each other. But eventually, it will spread.
[what evidence is there for waterfowl carrying H5N1? Potent evidence for them dying of it. But carrying?]“There is really no populated area of the world that will be immune,” Van’t Hof said.
[Yikes – so we’re living in a B-grade horror movie!?]Come on, Dr Van’t Hof, put on the dunce’s cap and stand over there in the corner. Don’t come out until you have something valid to say.
recent media reports have included Zimbabwe finding bird flu, but testing and finding it’s H5N2.
So, autumn over, and FAO predictions re virus headed to Africa proved utterly wrong.
Meanwhile, great rash of outbreaks in poultry farms in China, particularly.
FAO didn’t predict that for some reason; tho seemed likely based on past experience (which is surely how science works).Post edited by: martin, at: 2005/12/09 08:52
New post to aiwatch, newsgroup re h5n1 and conservation:
Quote:Perhaps this paper might be of potential interest:"Pastoral Landscapes in the Qinghai Lake Area: Current Developments and Trends" (with photos, maps and figures) I have spotted the following phrase: Continuing westward along the south shore of Qinghai Lake, a state-owned "fish factory" enterprise …
I wonder if dead cormorants may have fed on these fish. Shuttle photo of Qinghai Lake, please enjoy:
quickly followed by:
Quote:I checked on Google, and it seems the FAO were involved in setting up fish farms in Qinghai Province in the early 1990s through something called the Qinghai Lake study group. The relevant publications are all on the FAO site. Their titles can be found under China at: http://www.fao.org/documents/show_cdr.asp?url_file=/docrep/W7283E/W7283E00.htm I find it easiest to locate the individual reports by using Google’s Advanced Search to match the exact title of the relevant paper. I haven’t worked my way through these papers yet – to find out if any mention fisheries set up at the lake itself, or what they feed the fish on. FAO of course have papers on their site which recommend the use of chicken faeces as fertiliser in fish farming. They also have a paper on avian flu in which they describe as "high risk production practices" "the keeping of chickens over fish ponds; the use of untreated chicken faeces as fertilizer or livestock feed" Makes you think, doesn’t it?Just come across two articles on factory farming of poultry; not great reading for KFC fans, or even Muslims partial to chicken (may be adulterated with pork proteins, to make meat seem better).
Reading them – quickly, what with details to make you go eaaghh – seems easy to see how intensive poultry farms can become “disease factories”, as Wendy Orent writes.
(tho vet Les Sims has noted above the larger farms have less problems with hpai, as can practice better biosecurity)
Special Report Supermarkets: ChickenAt the end, notes:
” Farm diseases are usually quite specific, and attack one type of livestock or crop. The best way to prevent them is to avoid keeping too many of the same animals together in one place, and to rotate them so that the cycle of diseases and parasites is broken. “
– much like situation with wild birds [maybe resident farm sparrows differ?]; as per evolutionary biology Wendy covers (see another thread here).Item in yesterday’s South China Morning Post on vaccination of poultry in Guangdong province, quoting Yu Yedong, provincial animal inspection and quarantine inspection head.
– 94% of Guangdong’s chicken population vaccinated; but shortage of vaccines meant some birds only given one shot, so may still be vulnerable to H5N1. (Best protection after booster shots given, 3-4 weeks after first ones given to 14-day old chicks.) Big farms all give two shots.
A veterinary expert said two shots ok for chickens maturing in summer; three better for winter maturing birds.
– Guangdong allocated several million doses of H5N1 and H5N2 vaccines a day.
– Flocks for export to other than Hong Kong are not vaccinated, as some countries say that if detect antibodies they can’t tell if due to vaccines or they’re sick birds.
“But Mr Yu said the administration’s own tests found that the virus was so potent that no chickens survived infection.”
(Much as seems typical with infected wild birds; maybeToday’s SCMP has item with Guan Yi quoted as saying vaccinating China’s billions of poultry is impossible. Notes re no of months needed even if great many people (soldiers) vaccinating birds each day; and once done, have to start again as more chickens reared.
Echoes concerns in recent news item quoting US poultry disease experts:
China bird vaccination crews could spread virus
Teams might carry germ farm to farm
In this:Quote:China’s plans to vaccinate billions of chickens against avian flu could backfire and end up spreading the disease, poultry and vaccine experts warn.Vaccination teams can easily carry the virus from farm to farm on their shoes, clothes and equipment unless they change or sterilize them each time, the experts said. That could be particularly difficult in China, where the veterinary care system is underfinanced and millions of birds are kept in small flocks by families.
Also, experts said, the task is likely to be overwhelming because the Chinese eat about 14 billion chickens a year, so mass vaccinations would have to be repeated again and again, while the risk of the disease being reintroduced by migratory birds, in which it is now endemic, would be constant. [Note: seems there’s no real evidence for this assertion; I’ve emailed Carol Cardona about it, but nothing solid in reply – chiefly based on work with domestic ducks; ignoring, say, 74,000 apparently healthy wild birds tested, only one positive result – faecal sample from Mongolia]
Bird vaccination campaigns involve a huge amount of labor because the animals must be injected one by one. China’s Agriculture Ministry said Tuesday that it would inject all of the nation’s 5.2 billion chickens, geese and ducks with a vaccine.
…
Dr. Leon Russell, president of the World Veterinary Association, said that an official from Vietnam told him recently that Vietnam had despaired of ever vaccinating all its birds because it would need 100,000 more trained vaccinators.
“So, for the life of me, I can’t figure out how China will vaccinate billions of chickens,” he said.
Post edited by: martin, at: 2005/12/03 10:04
thanks; interesting.
Includes:“We now have more smuggled birds coming into the United States than we do legal birds. I call them the bird Mafia.”
just sent another email to FAO newsroom; self-explanatory I think:
Quote:On seeing your 31 August 2005 news release, Wild birds expected to spread bird flu virus further, I emailed you as seemed suspect to me.No reply from you.
News release led with:
“The deadly strain of avian influenza that has hit several countries in Asia is likely to be carried over long distances along the flyways of wild water birds to the Middle East, Europe, South Asia and Africa, FAO warned today. “Now the autumn migration is over, can we expect a news release saying “Wild birds have not spread bird flu virus further – haven’t even spread it within Asia – this autumn” [maybe to Romania and s Russia, but even there, weird and questionable]
And if not, why not? Surely FAO isn’t fixated on playing role in witch-hunt against wild birds?Post edited by: martin, at: 2005/11/30 01:57
Nial Moores of Birds Korea has also emailed FAO newsroom:
Quote:Dear Sir/Madam,An amazing news release from the FAO, to be found at:
http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2005/1000166/index.htmlIt includes the long quotation:
Juan Lubroth, FAO senior officer responsible for infectious animal diseases, commented (killing of wild birds in cities in order to control H5N1 outbreaks) “is unlikely to make any significant contribution to the protection of humans against avian influenza.¡±He added: ¡°There are other, much more important measures to be considered that deserve priority attention. Fighting the disease in poultry must remain the main focus of attention.¡±
¡°Wild bird species found in and around cities are different from the wetland waterfowl that have been identified as carriers of the avian influenza virus,¡±
Here we see the FAO on the one hand apparently trying to accept that alarmist proclamations about spread of HPAI H5N1 by wild birds are somehow overstated, while at the same time trying to defend their spurious position that it is spread by wild birds after all!
As a significant and respected organisation, it is surely important for the FAO to be at least as as rigid and clear with their use of language and facts as others (like NGOs – who unsupported by massive funding and publicity machines, have worked tirelessly over the past months/years to ask the relevant questions to largely uninterested media).
Clearly, sometimes “the wild bird species found in and around cities” in the region are the same as “wetland waterfowl”. Many cities have breeding colonies of Little Egret or Grey Heron, others of Great Cormorant, still others large numbers of wintering waterbirds.
The point is not that they are different species, but that up to now there is still no unambiguous evidence that infected wild birds carry highly pathogenic H5N1 long distances; there is no unambiguous evidence that wild birds have infected poultry with the virus (though there is plentiful strong evidence of secondary infection of scavenging wild bird species by infected poultry); there is not a single known case of wild birds infecting people.
It is extraordinarily irresponsible to speak only half-truths, so that the agency can keep having their cake while eating it.
Let us please hear from now much more from the FAO on how there have been no outbreaks of Highly Pathogenic H5N1 in migratory bird populations in East Asia after the self-limiting outbreaks in Mongolia in the summer; how patterns of outbreaks still have not and do not match patterns of wild bird migrations; how even in Europe, spread by wild birds remains but a poorly supported hypothesis, greatly weakened by evidence of spread by captive birds (for example into the UK and into Kuwait). Let us hear much more about investigations into cultural and agricultural practices, from merit release, through cock-fighting, through use of chicken manure as fertiliser in fish ponds.
Surely, these are the kinds of causes of spread that fall within the emit of FAO’s expertise; that the FAO has responsible for informing the public about.
Sincerely,
Nial Moores
Director, Birds KoreaNial Moores
Birds Korea: The national and international network dedicated to the conservation
of birds and their habitats.FAO just put out press release, saying killing wild birds not good
Unimpressive I think; just emailed their news room:Quote:Here’s an email I’ve circulated to some people who may be interested.“Following report of Ho Chi Minh’s wild bird slaughter, FAO now warning against killing wild birds in attempt to guard against H5N1.
http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2005/1000166/index.htmlFAO surely in part responsible – thanks to chief vet Joseph Domenech widely reported on wild birds supposedly spreading H5N1, and never mind the lack of solid evidence (and people like Les Sims, a vet with extensive field experience of H5N1, inc for FAO, saying wild birds are by no means main culprit for spread). Hope Domenech is proud of his role in the witch-hunt vs wild birds.”
– while perhaps Juan Lubroth can enlighten me as to just which waterfowl have been identified as “carriers” of H5N1. (I trust he wasn’t being sloppy, and just meaning main carriers of regular, wild bird flus?!)
The answer, dear Juan and FAO news people: no wild birds identified as carriers of H5N1. Being dead or very sick doesn’t enable you to carry the virus. (Further, the drastic measures being taken in Ho Chi Minh are not just “unlikely” to help with H5N1 – they won’t do anything at all to help. But, some pest species may benefit, as in China during Mao’s war on sparrows.)
